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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Title: Kibbs Addict
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:hug2col: I'm sure you do fine. I really do need to catch up with some of your McGiva fics - see if you can convert me :P so many stories, so little time. I do think that just being aware of "this is dragging" is a really good sign :yes:

Like I say, I don't think any of these things are intrinsically bad/boring etc. I think at least some of the time it's because people are writing those things as their first forays into fanfic, or into any kind of fiction. It's understandable, because giving your OTP a HEA is a pretty obvious place to dip your toe in, but it does mean you end up with a lot of not very experienced writers trying something that's hard to do well, if you see what I mean!

It's like things like self inserts (or the self insert's cousin, the OC who's a thinly disguised self insert): I don't think it's always inherently problematic with someone putting themselves into a fic, or even having their self insert/practically a self insert get into a wish fulfilment romance with the character (though I do sometimes think that that kind of wish fulfilment prob'ly should stay on the writer's hard drive... ;)), it's just that it's usually done so transparently and badly. If I get the notion a fic is some kind of self insert fantasy wish fulfilment, I am less likely to even look at it, because the chance of it being really good are pretty low.

I'm sure I miss out on a few really well written stories, BUT for me that's an acceptable trade off for not reading someone else's badly written sex fantasy, f'example :rofl:

When it comes to writers I know and trust, or recs from people I know have good taste, then I'm many times more likely to give a story a chance to win me over even if it's dealing with a topic or trope or kind of character I'd usually avoid. There are things I'm not keen on, but with a few exceptions (like 99.999999%* of noncon/dubcon, and mpreg, which squick me out for entirely different reasons) I'm wary of saying I will never read X, or I think Z is automatically a Bad Thing.

So while I tend not to go in search of established relationships, baby fics and suspiciously familiar OCs having a relationship with Hottie McMaincharacter, in theory I wouldn't mind reading a story with an OFC in an established relationship with Gibbs and preggers with his progeny. It would just have to be written by someone I rated or recommended by a trustworthy friend ;D

* I say 99.999999% because I have come across a few fics where the topic has been dealt with sensitively and rape hasn't been used as a gateway to lurrrrrve *vomit* so it's not completely black and white, and obviously there are huge differences between drunken mistakes or deliberate rape with consequences shown, or someone being coerced into something, etc, and rape being thrown around as a plot point and dealt with without any thought. I wouldn't bracket someone dealing with the aftermath of sexual assault in the same category at all as someone who writes a "X gets raped but she really wanted it and now she'd in love" (blech) story, if you see what I mean.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:28 pm 
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flootzavut wrote:
Totally random: written any more on Ladybug recently? I am so in love that that damn fictional dog.

Aww! I'm so glad you remember her. I haven't posted anything Ladybug-related recently, but I do have the next chapter hanging around and waiting to be finished. It's a different story for me. Light and cute. :nice: (Plus I love a good dog story....)


About "established relationship" fics. I like them (if they're done well) mostly because they can go places other stories cannot. So many non-canon-pairing stories take us through the "when X fell in love with Y" scenario, and that's fine. I think I've read countless "just starting out" Tibbs or McNozzo or whoever stories, and I love them. But a story starting mid-relationship can add some new things. Kids, break ups, infidelity (I know this is one that rubs some people the wrong way), new jobs, old jobs, and other life events. Could be boring, but a good writer can make it entertaining, at least. I'm very wary of stories that have children, BUT some are okay. When I write Tiva, I like having them in an established relationship (albeit one that's not going well.....). I see them having at least one kid. And I'm about to embark on another story in which Tony has two (maybe three?) girls. Who knows! Obviously, all of these scenarios are very "AU."


About "non-con" and "dub-con." Oh yes. So glad you brought this up, Sarah, because it's something that's bothered me for awhile. I don't even like to use these two terms because they really don't make much sense to me. They almost seem like "nicer," "more palatable" ways of saying rape or sexual assault. Non con? Sounds like rape. Dub con? Sounds like rape. It's all just really not cool. If someone's writing this kind of story, they're writing about rape, so they better give it the weight it's due.


And "MPreg"?? Don't even get me started on that. I just don't get it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Mpreg is one of the weirder fanfic tropes I've come across. I mean, I like slash just fine (obviously, look at the story thread we're commenting on, lol) and I have NO PROBLEM with two men having children together, but why can't they adopt or even just foster kids, like any other gay couple would, rather than making one of the guys pregnant? To me it seems like people's attempt to feminize one of the men, and I don't even want to get into that, because it's kind of a sensitive issue and yeah. But that being said, I once had a dream about Fornell being pregnant with Gibbs' baby and started writing that fic because can you even imagine. That would be HILARIOUS. I didn't get very far, but it was too much to pass up. ;D

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Title: Kibbs Addict
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I have a blah brain tonight, thanks to that virus, but I had to say I laughed at the idea of Fornell carrying Gibbs' baby WHAT :huh: :rofl: crack!fic? Could be hysterical.

The whole idea of mpreg just... the logistics of it, it hurts my brain. I just... I get caught between a kind of horrified-fascinated curiosity, and simple :tmi:

For some reason mpreg seems to pop up on my Tumblr dash every so often, and it's almost always the Marvel comics' Loki carrying Thor's baby, and it's just... Nope. There is so much wrong with that scenario that it hurts. my. brain.

Anyway like I say, brain = mush but I had to :lol2: at the Fibbs baby...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:09 pm 
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As crackfic... maybe, as that's meant primarily as farce. But as reality? :shocked:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:58 am 
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K9Lasko wrote:
flootzavut wrote:
Totally random: written any more on Ladybug recently? I am so in love that that damn fictional dog.

Aww! I'm so glad you remember her. I haven't posted anything Ladybug-related recently, but I do have the next chapter hanging around and waiting to be finished. It's a different story for me. Light and cute. :nice: (Plus I love a good dog story....)

Yay I'm glad there's some in the works at least ;D

k9lasko wrote:
About "established relationship" fics. I like them (if they're done well) mostly because they can go places other stories cannot... But a story starting mid-relationship can add some new things. Kids, break ups, infidelity (I know this is one that rubs some people the wrong way), new jobs, old jobs, and other life events. Could be boring, but a good writer can make it entertaining, at least. I'm very wary of stories that have children, BUT some are okay. When I write Tiva, I like having them in an established relationship (albeit one that's not going well.....). I see them having at least one kid. And I'm about to embark on another story in which Tony has two (maybe three?) girls. Who knows! Obviously, all of these scenarios are very "AU."

I definitely think they can be good, but yeah, you have to do it well. That's my main problem. I usually only read established relationship stories if I know the writer already, because unfortunately it's so often done badly. I don't even mind "slice of life" type stories where it's just a snapshot of an established couple going about their business, but without some kind of conflict, multi chapter or multi story versions of that?? Hmmm :-/

k9lasko wrote:
About "non-con" and "dub-con." Oh yes. So glad you brought this up, Sarah, because it's something that's bothered me for awhile. I don't even like to use these two terms because they really don't make much sense to me. They almost seem like "nicer," "more palatable" ways of saying rape or sexual assault. Non con? Sounds like rape. Dub con? Sounds like rape. It's all just really not cool. If someone's writing this kind of story, they're writing about rape, so they better give it the weight it's due.

I soooo agree. I think you're right that too often those terms are used to try and kind of cover up or soften the idea that one of their characters just raped another one.

I have read some good stories that did actually deal with rape without attempting to pretend it was anything else, usually dealing with the aftermath and recovery. I also once read one that was kind of a rape by proxy scenario, where one of the characters had to decide whether to force himself on another to save both of their lives, but again that was more about the trauma for both of them, and the guy's intense guilt about it, and the recovery. I don't remember much about that one, it wasn't exactly something I saved to reread for pleasure, but considering the scenario I seem to remember it was done pretty sensitively and didn't gloss over the bad stuff and how it affected both the characters.

I have a vague memory that you have a McGiva one that has a similar ish scenario, Sherry?? Or am I making that up? :huh: though if I'm remembering correctly in that one both characters knew what was happening so it was almost like they were both in a similar position when it came to knowing the other one's consent was dubious, but yeah. Similar kind of difficult scenario, handled thoughtfully, as I recall. Unless I'm totally making it up, of course... :th_uhoh2:

In any case, yeah - I think it's a difficult topic to do justice to, and I really, really hate when it's thrown around lightly as a plot device for cheap drama, or when the writer tries to minimise it because they really like the character and for some bizarre reason they want to make this character they love into a rapist. I just... I don't care how much you like a character, rape is abhorrent, and if a character rapes or otherwise sexually assaults another character, you really can't pretend that that's okay. Even in the rape-under-duress scenario, there's gonna be fallout, you know? Bleh.

I do appreciate it when it's dealt with properly, and I have come across a few stories that have done that. I have several stories on the go in my Rosefern AU which deal with the topic of being physically and sexually assaulted, and even to write about the aftermath when I'm dealing with AU versions of people who are fictional to begin with is stressful. I find it hard to fathom how anyone can write about it as if it was just nothing, even (or maybe especially, sometimes) in the rape-under-duress scenario. Treating it as a joke or some kind of meet cute... Ugh. No. Stop.

On the mpreg topic: Thorki mpreg, treated as a serious lurve story... Yeah, I seriously need brain bleach because I would like to forget that that even exists, and it isn't just one example, I've seen several. Rule 34 at work, I guess. Belongs in the same category as the Hogwarts x Giant Squid fanfic I unwisely read the start of one time. I highly recommend NOT checking that out...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:13 am 
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Yeah, I was going to say I have one of those "f*** or die" fics. It's called Exposed. Someone I'm friends with had wanted to see one, so I attempted it. I wish I would have done more with the aftermath, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:30 pm 
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I thought I remembered right. Glad I wasn't talking total nonsense! ;)

I tried to find that other one I read, but I don't remember enough about it to find it again :confusion-shrug: I think it was H50... :lol2: yeah that doesn't help so much, huh?

It's a hard topic to tackle no matter the situation. I really wish people would quit using it as cheap melodrama :-/

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Yeah, I think people should only write about those topics if they're willing to actually write the "ugly side" of it, you know? Like I don't really care for the current SVU showrunner, but one thing I do like that he's done is have Rollins be a gambling addict & that actually be an on-going problem that she hasn't magically gotten over, because that's how it is for addicts. So people who show the bad side, but also try to resolve things, are the type of writer I appreciate. If that makes sense.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Yes! I do know what you mean and it does make sense and I agree entirely :yes: glossing over the ugly side of stuff like that does such an injustice to people going through stuff, besides anything else.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:36 pm 
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I think some people just want to believe, if they're writing a shippy fic that this stuff is included in, that the power of love can make everything all better & that's just not true. It can HELP, sure, but you can't pretend that an addict is suddenly going to stop their addictive behavior entirely because they're in a relationship or what have you. I'll admit that I'm a fan of a happy ending, so I usually end up resolving things, but I think it's good if you acknowledge that everything's not perfect, because that's how real relationships work. I'm trying to do that with the fic I'm working on right now, but it's hard. I've already had to go back and do a lot of editing because the conflict resolved itself too fast and I wanted to prolong the angst, lol. That's how I had imagined it originally and then I started writing and it was like, "No, make them happy!" and I think I just need to go against my instincts sometimes and go with my original idea I had BEFORE I started writing, because that's usually the better idea. :P Maybe parts of it are a little melodramatic, but the situation kinda warrants it, too. And they ARE characters on a TV show, so if they're a little more dramatic than regular people, then there ya go. (Though I know plenty of real people who are known to make the littlest situation overly dramatic. :P)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:56 am 
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smackalicious wrote:
I think some people just want to believe, if they're writing a shippy fic that this stuff is included in, that the power of love can make everything all better & that's just not true. It can HELP, sure, but you can't pretend that an addict is suddenly going to stop their addictive behavior entirely because they're in a relationship or what have you. I'll admit that I'm a fan of a happy ending, so I usually end up resolving things, but I think it's good if you acknowledge that everything's not perfect, because that's how real relationships work.

Yeah, I hear ya :yes:

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