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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:11 pm 
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McNozzo is so much fun! I was so glad my muse finally managed to pull her thumb out and help me write some last year, because they're so much fun to write together and I reeeeeally wanted to write some more-than-friendship stuff, but it took an age for my muse and plot bunnies to cooperate.

I don't think Gibbs is "too damaged" for a relationship: I do think he's decidedly damaged to the point where even when the stars and personalities are in alignment, it's not going to be an easy relationship, and the other half of it is probably going to have a lot of work to do. I find stories which portray the relationship as being too smooth or easy lose me pretty fast. I think that even goes double for slash, because then there are lots of somewhat unavoidable outside pressures on same sex relationships, and I just don't find it credible if those aren't addressed at some point. If it's just the start of a relationship, or if it's PWP, that's one thing, but otherwise I pretty much expect there to be road bumps at some point. I don't know how good I am at writing that, though I try, so it might be a wee bit hypocritical of me, but as a reader it's something that can really trash my willing suspension of disbelief.

(Weirdly, the OT4 AU that grew out of a joke with a friend last year is, for me, maybe the most convincing Gibbs relationship I've found. I think for all four of them, but especially for Gibbs, having three others to lean on and empathise with and stuff could work surprisingly well. I really never thought I'd ship, never mind write, a relationship of more than two people, but I'm continually surprised at how well it seems to work. Strange but true :confusion-shrug: I think it would depend hugely on the people involved, but with these four characters, they just feel like they would balance each other out incredibly well. And I feel like Gibbs would be much more manageable between three people :rofl: :th_uhoh2: :rolleyes:)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:11 pm 
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K-Gibbs wrote:
I'm not really a slasher at all, but this came to mind the other night and I had to share it. You know how all the ships have names that are coined by joining the names of the two characters involved, right? Well, I was going over some of the ones we've had and one really REALLY bad one occurred to me. What would we call the Fornell/Ducky pairing? :naughty:

(Yeah, the headslap's on me)

I was just randomly reading old posts and... :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:19 pm 
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:rofl:

That's hysterical.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:48 am 
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My inner twelve year old boy was delighted ;D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:53 am 
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Mine too! LOL

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:58 am 
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:evillaugh: ;D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:59 pm 
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what is this "inner" of which you speak? :bwah:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:02 pm 
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:lol2: ... no comment... :blush:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 pm 
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I was rereading this thread, and I'm still amused that I used to think I couldn't slash Gibbs with anyone :lol2: It's got to the point where a friend who occasionally plays in my NCIS/LTM sandbox sent me a Cal/Gibbs ish unfinished story on the basis my muse would be all over giving them a little moment of mildly smutty fun... it took me all of two hours to have something to send back to her. And my WIP folder is just overflowing with all this C/G stuff, friendship, romance, cuteness, smut... if I'm not careful, this thing could so become the Cal and Gibbs show because I love writing them so much :nice: :rofl:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Well, that's not surprising. Cal is kind of gaga over him. LOL

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Cal is besotted. It's really cute :smitten: though interestingly, in that one, it was Gibbs perving on Cal; Cal being Mr Clever at a conference and all three of them being there and being impressed, and Gibbs going "Holy crap, I forgot Lightman was an actual genius; my boyfriend is so smart" *hearteyes* :rofl: It gives Cal a bit of a big head, and he gets some revenge for the many times Gibbs has teased him and left him all turned on and no way to do anything about it :evillaugh:

(Cal as I write him is basically smitten with all three of them, and it's adorable. So much fun to write!)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:38 am 
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All right, good slashers, help me out. I have a story to post in my Lie to NCIS-verse, and it's not coming up desperately quickly, but quickly enough that I want to start thinking about this. I forget what the original working title was (my working titles are usually terrible... it was probably "Cal perves on Gibbs at NCIS" or something, which actually by my standards is not bad as working titles go...!), but it got renamed to "Pervert" on the grounds that that was slightly better than my working title, and I've yet to find something better.

But... It's basically what the working title says, Cal is in a meeting at NCIS and is entirely failing to keep his eyes to himself, and honestly I think Cal is a bit of a perve (I think you could argue it from canon, tbh :evillaugh:), but I would hate for the fact the story is about Cal drooling all over Gibbs to make it come off like he's being labelled a pervert because Gibbs is a bloke, or whatever... so I don't know.

I'm honestly not especially attached to the title anyway, so if it came down to it, a different title that wouldn't possibly carry Unfortunate Implications would be fine with me... as long as I can think of one :banghead: I really hate thinking up titles :-/ :th_uhoh2: so yeah... does anyone have an opinion, would you sideeye a slash story for having that as a title?

(And either way (because I'd honestly kinda like a better title, I don't think it's all that great of a title), does anyone have any potential title ideas for "Cal Lightman is besotted and is borderline embarrassing himself in this meeting, and it's kinda cute"?!? :rofl: I hate thinking up titles so. so. much.)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:49 am 
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When I think of pervert, I think of child molesters and that ilk so if I saw a story with the title of pervert, I would run away and not look back.

As for a good title, not sure I'm the best one to ask here since I suck at them, too, but I could see him thinking, "Oh my God! I'm ogling a bloke!" As Cal seems to go, that might actually work as a title.

Seriously though, I'll have to think on it. Let me get some coffee in me and if I think of anything, I'll let you know.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:02 am 
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Yeah, that's sort of my thought, that it could too easily be misinterpreted. It wouldn't be my intention, but... it could really give the wrong impression in one of several ways. I can imagine Cal quite happily perving on one of them, and calling it that, but somehow as soon as it becomes 'pervert' I'm like... no longer comfortable with this :shocked:

Cal has been ogling Gibbs for a while at that point, he's just given up pretending it's not what he's doing :rofl:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:05 pm 
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With the way they've portrayed Gibbs' and Shannon's relationship and his subsequent divorces and failed relationships, I have a really hard time picturing Gibbs with a woman at all except in the Lie to NCIS 'verse, which is another matter entirely.

Gibbs just strikes me that he's more comfortable overall with men and would do well in a relationship with a man. Given his father's attitudes about life, Gibbs would've been raised with similar attitudes and I think he'd be very pragmatic about the whole thing. Since no woman on earth could ever replace Shannon (she must have been one in a billion), and he clearly doesn't do well by himself, him being in a relationship with a man seems to make more sense to me than him being alone (as he is on the show) or with a woman (which has been a major fail all the way around).

So yeah, I have no trouble picturing Gibbs in relationships with men. I think that's why I haven't written any Kibbs. I just find it easier picturing him with a man.

So...yeah.

In the Lie to NCIS 'verse, Cal is freaked out by his attraction to Gibbs but I could see Gibbs just being amused by the whole thing. I'm no closer to helping you come up with a title but Cal being inappropriate in a meeting is funny to think about. I think you should let me read it so I can better help you come up with a title, not that I have ulterior motives or anything. :rolleyes:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:11 pm 
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See, I always got the impression that his marriages were fairly early on (I don't know if I'm right about that, I just got that impression always) - he made some stupid decisions and married for the wrong reasons (hair colour?!? dude), but I can't see that as negating any possibility of having a relationship with a woman in future. I'd also say he seems to get on with plenty of women fine: both Abbys, Rachel, Kate, off the top of my head. (Oh! And Ive only seen one episode with her, but I adored the friendship/chemistry with Kelli Williams' character, Mo/Maureen - don't recall her second name!) That's not to say 'Yes, he must be with a woman,' but I don't think it's so simple as 'He screwed up because he's no longer capable,' if you know what I mean?

Jenny pretty much up and left him because he didn't fit into her life plan, Hollis made a unilateral decision that he wasn't over his wife and so she was out of there, Sam Ryan wasn't willing to give him a chance to help her and keep her safe from her crazy ex. I don't think Gibbs would be an easy man to be in a relationship with - quite the reverse - but I can't lay all that relationship failure solely at his feet, and I feel like half his problem is that he chooses the wrong women for the wrong reasons, not that he's incapable of having a healthy relationship with one. I think Ducky had a point about him marrying the wrong women to subconsciously ensure he ends up alone, and I think a big part of that would be terror of letting someone else (anyone else) get close and then potentially go through that grief again.

(Even Diane admits she doesn't actually believe he 'never loved her,' and Diane was not in the business of giving Gibbs any breaks...)

Like I say, I don't have a thing that Gibbs should or has to be with a woman (I'm trying desperately to head my muse off of writing a really adorable Cal/Gibbs AU, for starters, seriously, those two are killing me...), but I would hesitate to make a judgement about him being able or not being able to have a relationship with a woman based on what we see in the show.

I think he'd have to get over his thing about replacing Shannon (which tbh I feel like he has at least to some extent - the canon relationships he's had on screen have, IMO, been with women who were a godawful fit, but neither Hollis nor Sam Ryan comes off as remotely like Shannon), and he'd have to want to have a healthy relationship (which I feel like he was aiming for with Ryan, he seemed to be trying, I just think they were a truly awful match).

And perhaps biggest of all, he'd have to be willing to be vulnerable, and willing to risk the possibility of losing someone again. You only have to look at how he reacted to Kate's death, who he'd known and worked with for less than two years, to realise he doesn't deal terribly well with that. Obviously as a Kibbs shipper I have Theories (TM) about why that shook him up, but the man handles loss poorly. I think he's got better, but letting someone all the way into his heart? That's a big deal.

I totally agree he doesn't seem to do well alone. I reread Blue's 'Warm Comfort' today, and was struck again by this line: "He'd had so much love. It had wanted somewhere to go." That really rang true for me. He seems to try to be an island, but he's really, really bad at it. Threats to his team or his friends show he's not nearly as closed off as he tries to make out, and his friendships with Ducky and Abby and even Vance show real depth and feeling, and he overtly referred to Ziva as if she were his kid. (I feel like there's more that's open to interpretation with Tim and Tony, just IMO! They float between friend-colleague-family in a weird and unpredictable way, and I don't think those interrelationships are easily pigeonholed... And I haven't seen enough of Ellie to have a strong opinion of her relationship with Gibbs.)

Even with all the stars in alignment and the perfect person, I don't think it would ever be easy, and I don't think he would be easy, but frankly, I can't see him being all that easy to get on with for anyone, male or female. Honestly, I think my foursomeverse is the most healthy relationship I've come up with him, purely because it's not one poor person dealing with all Gibbs' demons solo :rolleyes: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Ahhh, Gibbs, ya crazy mixed up bastard...

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Last edited by flootzavut on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Oh, and I am totally planning to send you that story :lol2:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:18 pm 
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My muse hates you right now, Sarah, but I adore you. I'm gonna have to sleep less to make time to write.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:23 pm 
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:lol2: :kisscheek: :smitten: ;D love you too!

It's been sooooo interesting to me in the crossover, because on the one hand you have three people - two of whom have essentially devoted their lives to psychology in one way or another, and all of whom care about him deeply and will therefore look out for him, plus Emily having adopted him as surrogate dad/supercool uncle... and then on the other hand, he has four whole people for whom he cares deeply and who he is terrified of losing. So... swings and roundabouts, but it's so interesting to write :nice: The more I write, the more I think of things I need to write, and the more I'm just desperately sprinting and trying to keep up with my muse... :th_uhoh2: :shocked: :rolleyes:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I find it so interesting to read both of you ladies' thoughts on Gibbs & his relationships. I tend to like him in slash pairings better than het myself (and I'm one of those people who will ship Gibbs with just about anybody, but I obviously have preferences of pairings - I just will hop on board & nod along with people while they talk about their favorite Gibbs pairing, basically, lmao) & I do think part of it is that he seems to have if not healthier, then BETTER relationships with the men on the show (of course, that could just come down to the show being written by mainly men & not understanding how to write women and men's relationships with them, but I digress). Like, I can get behind Gabby as a pairing, but it feels like she looks up to Gibbs more than views him in a romantic way & I feel like he cares about her too much to want to burden her with all his baggage, if that makes sense. I suppose that's part of the reason he keeps a bit of distance between himself & the rest of the team/Ducky/Vance/etc. is because he DOES care about them so much - all he has is NCIS, so he doesn't want to lose those people - and he doesn't want them to have to deal with HIS problems because he feels like they shouldn't have to handle his problems on top of their own. So I don't think he's as "cold" as he comes across sometimes; he's just trying to avoid opening himself to those vulnerable feelings, like Sarah said.

I have to say that when the show first started, he wasn't my favorite character, but I really love Gibbs now. Especially when he's sassy. :lol2:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:08 pm 
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I guess with Gibbs is that he's spent most of his life around men. Look at his hobbies and career choices: No women as far as the eye can see (at first). Now, more women are joining the military and law enforcement, but back when he started, women there would have been more rare. Jen Shepherd, in particular, would have started at NCIS at a time there weren't many women there and his attraction to her (red head, shocking) was no surprise. I just can't help but think that as a young man, he worked on cars. I don't know if he played sports, that was never mentioned that I know of, but if he had, that would've been boys too. Then, he joined the Marines and was deployed most of his marriage. I just can't help but have the impression that maybe he was more comfortable alone or around men.

And it's obvious Gibbs liked sex with women, I mean, the flashback he had of him and Shepherd, that point was hard to miss, but given the failure of his marriages after Shannon, I can't help but wonder if his marriage to Shannon would've survived had he not spent most of it deployed. I actually have a story in the works that is going to go into all this, but yeah...I think about it a lot.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:47 pm 
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I attempted to post about this, and ended up between tiredness and my keyboard futzing up just getting tangled in knots :lol2: so I saved the draft and maybe I'll make sense of it when I have time and brainpower :lol2:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:15 am 
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As for a title, Sarah, my suggestion would be something like "Overt Attentions" or "Overt Glances..." Just subtle, but he's all out of fecks to give, so to speak.

I think Gibbs is a very pragmatic man and he likes being in a relationship. I think being with a man would be a challenge at first because of a lot of preconceived notions and cultural norms, but I think it's possible he'd be attracted to a man and if that man was important enough to him, he'd risk it. In Sarah's L2N universe, the fact that it's a foursome with two women might make it easier for him to connect directly to Cal. There are other situations where he would connect more easily, too, and I think people have explored a lot of them.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:16 am 
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:rofl: He definitely is all out, poor sod :evillaugh:

I was saying to a friend the other day that I spent so much time trying to make the foursome relationship seem plausible and now I've got to the point where it feels almost inevitable. Of course, I don't have the emotional distance from the story to know how much of that is just because these characters mesh so well and how much is purely that I have spent months and thousands of words trying to make it seem that way :rolleyes: So I guess it remains to be seen what happens when I actually get to the point of posting the post-foursome stories.

In that context, I think it definitely makes it seem easier for both Cal and Gibbs to tentatively connect, to covertly flirt etc. before anything happens, because they're both in secure relationships and have a solid basis. It's confusing, but it's almost like they have cover :th_uhoh2: I don't know how else to put it, though that really doesn't sound right. And similarly for all of them, when they get together, there's a solid foundation there of Cal/Gillian and Kate/Gibbs (and also the preexisting relationship between Kate and Gillian) that means they all have a safe place to retreat to when things get confusing. That's especially important for Cal, as in this AU he's the only one, when it comes to the point, who's completely new to being in a same sex relationship. He has Gillian as a point of reference/safe harbour for when he's really confused. And Gillian is really perceptive, so she's been aware forever that Cal has a bit of a thing for Gibbs, and is the only one of them who's had any thought that maybe there's an unconventional solution to all their various attractions and crushes and so on. So she and Cal are kind of at the opposite ends of the scale on that front, and she's in a position to really be his anchor, to be able to be rational and practical when he needs that.
... and I'm rambling. I just really love my AU :blush: :smitten:

I do find it amusing that I've done a total 180 with Cal/Gibbs. I went from 'Nope, no way, no how' to 'Well, in the context of this relationship...' to 'Dear muse, no, I am not writing that AU, I don't care how adorable it would be...'

That said, the AU I've been fighting off doesn't have Gibbs as a federal agent and Cal as essentially also a criminal investigator. I think that does complicate things to some extent - it shouldn't, but if a story is going to be set in NCIS/more or less in the real world... for military/law enforcement guys I think there are going to be complications and prejudices that wouldn't be the same if they were just two regular joes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:37 pm 
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flootzavut wrote:
I attempted to post about this, and ended up between tiredness and my keyboard futzing up just getting tangled in knots :lol2: so I saved the draft and maybe I'll make sense of it when I have time and brainpower :lol2:

I realised I never came back to this. I will attempt to at some point.

I was just looking at some of the links I've saved for various bits of research research of slashy things, and I think this is the best article title I've ever seen: "Hairy gay men with beards: 7 reasons to kiss them" ;D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Firstly:
partly for mild talk about sex, and partly because this topic makes me cringe so I think a warning is appropriate...
Why do slash writers hate lube so much? I keep reading stories that make me wince because... stuff needs help to go... in... there. I know it's possible to write usage of lube without being gross, so I wish more people would figure it out. Some of the lubeless stuff I've found myself reading truly makes me wince.

Secondly, you know how they say fandom loves slash? I have 203 stories, only 29 of which are MM, of which 9 are in my obscure little crossoververse that is very niche, and 7 of which are in a not-quite-so-tiny-but-still-small fandom (less than 200 stories in the fandom, less than 150 in the pairing). Despite this relatively modest output, of my top 20 stories by kudos, ten are slash and one is Gibbs/Tony friendship, and the top six stories are all slash.

To misquote Harvey Specter in one of my favourite Suits stories, "[We're) in fandom. Traditionally we think anything with cocks involved is hot." (If you like Suits at all, you should go forth and read 5U175: not only is it brilliant Suits fic, it's also a wonderfully meta story about fandom in all its weird glory, and it's hilarious.)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Spoiler:
I hate slash smut that lacks lube and I hate it when not enough lube is used for the purpose. That is NOT the time to be stingy with it, dammit!


Fanfic is weird by default, but some of it is less weird than what you watch on the show.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Bwahahaha, that's true. Seriously, that story is hilarious in large part because the writer absolutely nailed fandom... kind of... affectionately poked fun at it? Whilst not being even remotely mean about it. One of those times where you could absolutely see yourself and other people in various events and characters and story, but it was an insider's view and written with respect and affection. The Mike/Harvey stuff was the backbone of the piece, but I feel like you could enjoy it even if you had only the vaguest clue who the characters were. It was brilliant.

a matter of lube
It really makes me cringe, and I do not get it. I read one story where after there was quite significant, um, entrance made (I'm trying not to be gross :th_uhoh2: lmao), the writer THEN mentioned they were gonna use lube now and I just... I mean, I assumed lube was happening, because reasons, and the idea that had happened without? Yeouch!

I absolutely believe you can write lube usage that is romantic and/or hot, but if you just can't or don't or won't, at least let your reader assume that it's being used without being mentioned, you know? So they're not clenching their butts in empathy with your poor character :shocked: :rofl:

I know there are supposedly people out there who can enjoy it sans lube, but I would bet substantial sums of money they're a minority (or possibly mythical), so I feel like it's wildly unrealistic how many writers just skip it completely... Like, my God, at least let them use something... :th_uhoh2:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Check out the "m/m romance" genre on Goodreads. There are some rabid fans of that as well, most of them women.

I've got no doubt that some of those authors might have migrated from slash fic. Or maybe they're happily involved in both. ;D

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